I beg to disagree with you. Most historians agree Jesus existed as an historical person as there are references to him outside scripture. You can debate, of course, theological signifcance and ministry.
Although Jesus may have existed as a mortal human and not a god, even the evidence of his existence is shaky. Nevertheless, it is debatable. I personally have a bigger problem accepting the bible as an accurate historical record. It's full of great reading but just isn't plausible.
I certainly cannot believe Jesus was "god." He may have existed, but as a man only. And the evidence is not clear.
I don't know that "most historians" agree that Jesus existed. Jesus was supposed to be the Son of God, for goodness sake. Why isn't his name blazoned all over the place? Why are there so many contradictions in the New Testament about his being crucified as well as being hanged by the Sanhedrin (Acts 5:30)? How do you explain LUCA and the fact that all plants, animals and insects living have the same DNA?
Have you actually read any scholarly books on the historical Jesus and the extra-biblical sources? If you have interest in the subject, read and make up your own mind. The scholarly consensus is absolutely what I said it was. You're skeptical? That's for you to determine on your own. I don't care.
I have scrutinized the literature. I have a Ph.D. and a J.D., both from Harvard. The story of Jesus is improbable. But, aside from that, there are numerous other books, etc. One is "The Christ Conspiracy" by Acharya S (Dorothy Murdoch.) Do you believe that Gabriel dictated the contents of the Qur'an to an illiterate desert dweller over a 24-year period, or that the contents of the Book of Mormon were handed down by God? In short, people believe what they want to believe. It's the first fallacy in critical thinking - confirmation bias.
Oh go piss off. This was about the evidence for the historical person who was Jesus. NOT whether he was the Son of God. That's theology. NOT about partticular beliefs. Geez. Bye.
Actually, there aren't. I thought so too, because I thought I'd seen Tacitus and Pliny mention him. Then a friend told me to look again, and he was right. They mention 'Christians' but not a word on Jesus. Let me know if you know of any others. For awhile, it was claimed that the Jewish historian Josephus spoke of him, but that was later proved a fraud. Lines added later by Christians.
Wrong on Josephus. Part of the line is considered a later edition, the other part is not. Not debating this in a comment section. I've read books on the issue and have read on the historical Jesus and the Jesus seminar since the late 1980s. I encourage anyone interested in this subject to do their own reading.
Not sure which part you mean, but his entire paragraph on Jesus didn't show up till over two centuries later. The suspicion is that it was added by Eusebius, as Marycat's first two links explain above. I've read a few hundred books on Christianity and have had articles in two languages and a book published on the subject, by Penguin Random House. Thanks for the advice.
No, that isn't true. These days, it's called politics. Faith is personal and private. It is not forced on others. Doing so makes it into something utterly vile. "Faith" should stay at home, not be used as a weapon.
Funny how "faith" in America stops at the bible and "Jesus" when there is much more historical evidence that Mohammed actually lived and founded a religion meant to be the culmination of both Judaism and Christianity.
Wow! Muslim Religion Mohammed founded to be the culmination of both Judaism & Christianity? Clearly, you support the tenets of Islam and its treatment of women. Honor killings, butchering pregnant women, hatred of LGBTQ, Limiting education of women to 6th grade, compulsory wearing of full body burqa . The Democratic Party and its full throated defense of the harrrassment & violence directed towards Jewish students and faculty is breathtaking. Prof Erika Christakas of Yale University was pressured to resign as a result of an email on Halloween as it generated fear on the campus yet Violent protesters using violence & the genocide of Israel doesn’t violate Safe Spaces doctrine.
Given the antisemitism which is pervasive in the Democratic Party - urging a return to the Holocaust is progress in the Progressive camp.
Wondering when you’ll be calling for wearing the Nazi armbands?
Duh! That’s why they call it Faith. No need to scoff or be condescending to people who believe. There are 1.8 Billion Muslims who believe Jesus lived & they believe in God. Your note reveals a deep religious bigotry
I was a Muslim for 10 years. I lived in Egypt. I have the right to be as bigoted as I like about something that is nonsense. I don't care to know why someone's opinions disturb you so much. So just leave it.
I wish these people would sincerely ask ‘what would Jesus do,’ and then sincerely listen.
If Jesus ever existed, that is. Jesus is a story, that is all. There is no proof he ever actually lived.
I beg to disagree with you. Most historians agree Jesus existed as an historical person as there are references to him outside scripture. You can debate, of course, theological signifcance and ministry.
https://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/did-jesus-exist/
https://ffrf.org/component/k2/item/18412-debunking-the-historical-jesus
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/12/18/did-historical-jesus-exist-the-traditional-evidence-doesnt-hold-up/
Although Jesus may have existed as a mortal human and not a god, even the evidence of his existence is shaky. Nevertheless, it is debatable. I personally have a bigger problem accepting the bible as an accurate historical record. It's full of great reading but just isn't plausible.
I certainly cannot believe Jesus was "god." He may have existed, but as a man only. And the evidence is not clear.
That’s what I said.
I don't know that "most historians" agree that Jesus existed. Jesus was supposed to be the Son of God, for goodness sake. Why isn't his name blazoned all over the place? Why are there so many contradictions in the New Testament about his being crucified as well as being hanged by the Sanhedrin (Acts 5:30)? How do you explain LUCA and the fact that all plants, animals and insects living have the same DNA?
Have you actually read any scholarly books on the historical Jesus and the extra-biblical sources? If you have interest in the subject, read and make up your own mind. The scholarly consensus is absolutely what I said it was. You're skeptical? That's for you to determine on your own. I don't care.
I have scrutinized the literature. I have a Ph.D. and a J.D., both from Harvard. The story of Jesus is improbable. But, aside from that, there are numerous other books, etc. One is "The Christ Conspiracy" by Acharya S (Dorothy Murdoch.) Do you believe that Gabriel dictated the contents of the Qur'an to an illiterate desert dweller over a 24-year period, or that the contents of the Book of Mormon were handed down by God? In short, people believe what they want to believe. It's the first fallacy in critical thinking - confirmation bias.
Oh go piss off. This was about the evidence for the historical person who was Jesus. NOT whether he was the Son of God. That's theology. NOT about partticular beliefs. Geez. Bye.
Actually, there aren't. I thought so too, because I thought I'd seen Tacitus and Pliny mention him. Then a friend told me to look again, and he was right. They mention 'Christians' but not a word on Jesus. Let me know if you know of any others. For awhile, it was claimed that the Jewish historian Josephus spoke of him, but that was later proved a fraud. Lines added later by Christians.
Wrong on Josephus. Part of the line is considered a later edition, the other part is not. Not debating this in a comment section. I've read books on the issue and have read on the historical Jesus and the Jesus seminar since the late 1980s. I encourage anyone interested in this subject to do their own reading.
Not sure which part you mean, but his entire paragraph on Jesus didn't show up till over two centuries later. The suspicion is that it was added by Eusebius, as Marycat's first two links explain above. I've read a few hundred books on Christianity and have had articles in two languages and a book published on the subject, by Penguin Random House. Thanks for the advice.
https://www.namb.net/apologetics/resource/josephus-and-jesus/ I’ll ignore the snark.
Duh! That’s why they call it faith
No, that isn't true. These days, it's called politics. Faith is personal and private. It is not forced on others. Doing so makes it into something utterly vile. "Faith" should stay at home, not be used as a weapon.
Funny how "faith" in America stops at the bible and "Jesus" when there is much more historical evidence that Mohammed actually lived and founded a religion meant to be the culmination of both Judaism and Christianity.
Wow! Muslim Religion Mohammed founded to be the culmination of both Judaism & Christianity? Clearly, you support the tenets of Islam and its treatment of women. Honor killings, butchering pregnant women, hatred of LGBTQ, Limiting education of women to 6th grade, compulsory wearing of full body burqa . The Democratic Party and its full throated defense of the harrrassment & violence directed towards Jewish students and faculty is breathtaking. Prof Erika Christakas of Yale University was pressured to resign as a result of an email on Halloween as it generated fear on the campus yet Violent protesters using violence & the genocide of Israel doesn’t violate Safe Spaces doctrine.
Given the antisemitism which is pervasive in the Democratic Party - urging a return to the Holocaust is progress in the Progressive camp.
Wondering when you’ll be calling for wearing the Nazi armbands?
Duh! That’s why they call it Faith. No need to scoff or be condescending to people who believe. There are 1.8 Billion Muslims who believe Jesus lived & they believe in God. Your note reveals a deep religious bigotry
I was a Muslim for 10 years. I lived in Egypt. I have the right to be as bigoted as I like about something that is nonsense. I don't care to know why someone's opinions disturb you so much. So just leave it.
Only in your closed little hateful mind