My moment came when a book I was reading pointed out that the Bible was written by men in a patriarchal society who had a vested interest in keeping it patriarchal, not by God. I am now a devout atheist and feel deep sorrow for all the war, killing, and hatred that has occurred because of religion. I agree that church groups and other re…
My moment came when a book I was reading pointed out that the Bible was written by men in a patriarchal society who had a vested interest in keeping it patriarchal, not by God. I am now a devout atheist and feel deep sorrow for all the war, killing, and hatred that has occurred because of religion. I agree that church groups and other religious organizations have done a lot of good for their communities and brought comfort to believers but that doesn't make up for all the harm that has been done. Maybe if fewer humans had believed in Heaven, they would have done more to create a heaven on earth.
What fascinates me is that so many religious people perform acts of charity to please their god, not out of true love and compassion for others. It's bargaining. If the deity is pleased, it will bring good fortune. This is a belief shared by pagans and monotheists alike.
So much in our life is transactional (some would argue, philosophically, that *everything* is, in one way or another, transactional), and there is great utility in that, but only a cold kind of beauty, if any. We glow when we transcend the transactional.
Exactly. By Jesus dying on the cross, he gifts those that believe in Him, everlasting life. I don’t give HIM anything but my love. And that I give willingly, without question. It’s AGAPE love both ways. Beyond our comprehension for sure. You can’t buy your way into heaven, by good deeds, money given to the church, or power. It’s a gift.
Then we would all be good puppets. I like having a brain to critically think, make mistakes and improve, etc. “Free Will” allows us this. To see all the options, explore it all, and then decide what makes sense in our views. Jesus came to build a bridge between God & people. It’s hard for us to understand because we can’t see everything the way God does. That’s where faith comes in. It’s the hypothesis in science and it’s critical for both.
Maybe Satan caused the evil in our world? My Bible knowledge isn’t perfect but I remember a GARDEN OF EDEN, that sounded pretty perfect.
Hmm.. always more to learn. Meanwhile, I’m happy that God will judge the Covid elite planner’s of the virus/ vaccine genocide. “ Vengeance is Mine” Romans 12:19
How did HE destroy it?? Wow, you think God created this beautiful world, only to destroy it?
We are destroying it, by following Satan & the ways of this world. Sorry you can’t see that. I can’t imagine one day without God. Honest. I’ve seen more miracles than I can count. Not just coincidences, but true miracles. Too many have put God on a shelf, out of our schools, etc. The result is what you see now. Nope, Satan won’t win in the end. God has never lost a battle. It’s too late when Jesus returns. He will judge us all. It’s a little comfort for those that lost loved ones during the Covid scandal. There were millions. God knows. 😇💕
He did do something. He bought your salvation from Satan by sending his son to die on the cross. That’s the reason you can’t “ earn” your way to heaven. Because God already won the spiritual war for us. He didn’t make us puppets that automatically follow him. We have the choice to believe or not. God could have created a world without wars, without pain & suffering and he tried. Adam and Eve paved the way for sin by rejecting God’s instructions.
They HAD everything, and still gave in to the temptations. That’s what we have done for centuries. Got rid of the one thing that is good, true, and holy; God. There will come a day, and everyone will see Him and know the truth. All your questions will be answered about love, Satan, & hell. We don’t have to understand everything & we don’t. We only have to have faith enough to follow God. It’s not complicated, love God & love others. That’s it. Simple. We don’t have to be perfect, because we never could be. Only Jesus was.
Read “ Mere Christianity”- C.S. Lewis explains this so brilliantly. I just know for me, nothing else makes sense. Plus, I’ve seen true miracles in my life that are otherwise unexplainable. HE is too good, to not believe. You don’t know what you don’t know. And you can’t know, unless you get closer to God to find out. It will blow your mind. Seriously. Take a step of faith & see. Many have researched to prove it’s all a myth, or brainwashing, or whatever & what they find is it’s all true. Everything in the Bible historically, has come to pass. The great flood? It happened. Proof is out there, go find it.
But at least there’s a choice. I would hate to be a puppet, unable to follow & praise my choice of a savior. God could’ve made us that way. What kind of followers would that make? Soul- less puppets, would be the result right? The kind of people that the planners of United Nations “ ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT & RELIGION “ want.
The point of “ choice” is everything. It’s faith in its truest form. It’s not a myth or folklore just because we can’t wrap our head around this kind of love. ( I’m responding to another response here)
Yes, great floods (plural) happened 12,000 to 15,000 years ago when the glaciers melted, which is why so many regions have tales about it. There's also one in the tale of Gilgamesh Jess Piper mentioned above, along with a tree of knowledge guarded by a talking snake with a human head. Gilgamesh is Sumerian/Babylonian (remember, where the Biblical Jews were slaves?) and is twice as old as the Bible, as are a lot of ancient Egyptian myths they also borrowed (where they were also slaves.)
I've mentioned elsewhere all the previous men-gods that died and were resurrected long before Jesus. And Lynn Manley is right the so-called Church Fathers dumped a lot of other gospels (James, Thomas, and more) because they all said Mary Magdalene was Jesus' beloved and best apostle to turn Christianity into a male-dominated faith. But they're available to read now in some collections called "The Apocryphal Gospels". Apocrypha means shunted, put away, which is exactly what they did. And some of them are far more spiritual than what got shoved down our throats, imo.
I'm afraid that it's your take, and CS Lewis's, that shows little or no research at all. Real Bible scholars find just what I said above, and more. You're both just listening to preachers.
I understand. And reassure yourself that although research convinces most that all religions are man-made, that doesn't automatically turn them into atheists. The 17th & 18th century Enlightenment was full of deists who still believed in "a higher power" - despite religion (which was still persecuting and torturing people in those days) because as Voltaire said, whether you read Jesus, Confucius, Mahomet or Marcus Aurelius, basic morals seem just as universal as the physical laws of gravity that Newton demonstrated. And he felt that that fact, plus further perfections in the universe science was beginning to discover, transcended all religions and spoke for a greater, less tribal and childish power than all of them portrayed. He expressed feelings like you do below on the wonders of life at times.
Re Christianity, I quite appreciated two books by Garry Wills, "What Jesus Meant" and "What Paul Meant" even though I'm not a believer in the Bible like he is. Both are excellent though on how some preachers misconstrue or deform things.
It's good you have an open mind. Seek and ye shall find!
Thanks, I’ll check the books out. I’ve been watching the series “ Chosen” too & although they have taken some creative freedoms to make it more relatable, it follows the Bible & makes Jesus feel more real. He wasn’t meant to come & just spread love, he came with a sword to stir men’s hearts & prepare them to fight evil.
Mathew 10:34
The Covid chaos, Agenda 30, & future fake pandemics, is all an example of corrupt evil. This is a spiritual war that was documented in the Bible. Even the digital money in exchange for goods and services is in there. ( The Mark of the Beast) Gods not cowering at this. Either am I. The corporate elite hate the family unit, churches, and all our freedoms. Their plan is to take it all away. Churches weren’t seen as essential during lockdowns, but pot shops & other questionable businesses were. Why??!
Because they know the power that Jesus has.
It’s good vs. evil, that’s the choice. Choose carefully & soon. There will come a day when choosing won’t be available. Truth will always win. And evil can’t hide & deceive forever. 😇
Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply. It deserves as much IN reply!
For starts, I always smile at Matthew 10:34 because indeed, Jesus most definitely did not bring peace to the world. Christianity ultimately brought 1300 years of inquisitions, crusades, religious massacres, persecutions, unspeakable tortures and saw untold numbers of "witches" and "heretics" burned alive.
But I blame that on the greedy power-mongers that weaponized Jesus, much more than on Jesus. However, it's always very important to bear in mind just how much evil religion can, and has, produced over the ages.
Agreed re Covid & fake pandemics. And digital money. (Insane!) But it's absurd to say - lefties, I assume, since you're "almost the last Republican? - hate families, churches and our freedoms. Most of them have families they love, some go to churches and the smart ones fight tooth and nail for our freedoms. Jess is one, imo.
Is this the UN Agenda 30 with its 17 goals you're talking about? https://sdgs.un.org/goals. I'm straining to see what's "evil" in it. Enlighten me.
And the reason shops were OK but not churches during lockdowns had to do with the masses of people in churches vs small shops, where "social distancing' was possible. Concerts, theaters and cinemas were also closed, if you recall. Nothing to do with Jesus. Let's be logical (however Illogical the lockdowns were, agreed. You may not know that many thousands of scientists from Harvard, Oxford, Stanford and all over the world protested it way back in 2020. Over 900,000 toward the end. And that contained an awful lot of non-religious "lefties". Check it out: https://gbdeclaration.org/
Good vs evil is a VERY important choice, I agree! But religion has never had any monopoly on "good", as I detailed above. The oligarchy (I prefer kleptocracy) is definitely our real foe, and they own Republicans and Democrats alike (esp Trump, who aspires to BE one!!).
But ultra-rich people trying to buy up all the power is a constant throughout history. The Founders knew it, and did their best to prevent it here with laws and a Constitution too few respect these days (which includes separating church and state, for all the reasons mentioned above, which they were well aware of. The Inquisition was still active in the 18C in Europe. And other kinds of persecutions...)
Even Jesus told the priests that whores and tax-collectors would enter God's reign before they did. (Mt 21:31). And I frankly interpret "the truth will set you free" very differently than most preachers do.
Also remember that Christ was not a Christian. That system (AND its "sacred writings") were gradually built up over a couple of centuries after his death - by more greedy (& misogynistic) power-mongers taking over where the Pharisees left off. Neither Jesus nor Paul were misogynistic, as the Wills books will help explain.
So think on all that. And you choose carefully too!
Rosa Koire - author of Behind the Green Mask & many YouTube videos, explains the U.N. “ goals”. The book & videos are dated a bit but the info. is spot on correct. It’s like Covid & all the rest of the “ dual- purpose” programs; it always looks good on paper but the reality is horrendous. The Covid virus & vaccines ( bioweapons) deployed were not a mistake. They were well thought out to be deadly. Our DOD contracted with Pfizer & they both knew they would cause harm & kill. FDA & CDC knew as well. Those that didn’t, but still had a conscience, made for the great exodus- leaving agencies at the roll- out. This included dr.s , nurses, etc. Sad that many well- intentioned medical professionals had to leave their once loved profession because of a few cowardly elite planners. The plan goes back decades.
Please look into Rosa Koire book. If you search long enough you can find a free PDF of the book. It explains a lot and the true intentions of the U. N. unravels. I agree, reading the info. looks fine, but when you see the ultimate power grab intended, it will blow your mind.
Rosa Koire passed away from cancer but the book and info. she left, keeps her memory alive. It just proves what a legacy one person can leave to better our world.
I don’t have ill- will for Democrats. W.H.O., & corporate elie, gov. officials- especially our DOD & others, is what I meant by “ planners” of Covid virus & vaccines. Fauci, NIH, of course. These are the evils ones that hate our American way & wish to enslave us into 15 min. cities. It’s in the planning now, all over the world. ( Rosa Koire “ enlightened me”) You cant unsee it after you know & see it yourself. Someone here on Substack introduced me. 👍
C.S. Lewis “ Mere Christianity” talks about sin & brilliantly explains your priest & whore scenario. This book explained a lot for me & simplified text in the Bible. I’m still learning a lot but my foundation is strong & solid. I don’t think we can ever know all the details. Besides the devil is in the details. 🙈
It didn’t take long for evil to take advantage of Jesus teachings and take what Jesus gave us & complicate it. This is not God’s fault or lack of planning. This was to clearly weed out the followers from the others. Wars & fighting, Wa witch burnings, and Christian deaths, will all be judged someday. It’s not my job to judge others. If I judge a church member as a God, and leave my faith because of a man, that’s on me. That’s not God. There’s so much we can’t understand, but I understand that. Evil slips into any crack in your faith. I’ll reread your response and text more later. On my way to have Nana time with 2 adorable girls. 🥰
I just watched a show about Tolkien & C.S. Lewis discussing myth & religion, faith, etc. Myth is a huge part of the human experience into reasoning & faith. They were skilled in this area. C.S. Lewis was an atheist too, until his mythical understanding gave him his REAL LIFE understanding. Once you see what CAN be, along with the historical truths of the Bible, you can’t unsee it. ( much like the Covid chaos)
I hope you read the Lewis book. What can it hurt? It might just change your life. It changed his. 🤗 Merry Christmas! ( regardless of your choice) If you message me, I’d send you a copy. It’s that important.
The book “ Believing is seeing” by Michael Guillen talks about science & the unseen. He is a PhD and was an atheist until he started researching the similarities in science & your “ folk tale religion/ mythology “. ( I call Christianity)
There’s so much science doesn’t know and can’t be explained. I’m sorry you don’t feel there’s more to life than what you see or believe. God is real to me. It’s always been that way for me. I was not brainwashed from youth, if anything, my mom tried to squash my wanting to know more. I asked to go to church. She went so much as a child, and was around many religious hypocrites growing up. I get that. But people make the church and the experience negative, not God.
There’s a reason the Bible has been around so long and there’s a reason some can’t see it, while others can’t look away. I don’t have all the answers, none of us do. But I know my redeemer lives and I know there’s great evil in this world. I’ve seen too much to not believe. I first had faith and still do but the miracles I’ve seen solidified my faith. He is not a myth & he stands up for women & treasures them. We can’t make babies alone- we are meant to love others.
Okay, well then you really have more faith than I do. There’s no way I could look at all the inexplainable beauty of the earth, look at a newborn baby, watch miracles happen, and not think it’s all coincidence. That’s faith that you have in a world full of evil & lies. I see God everywhere I look. I guess whatever you focus on, you see more of. I choose Joy. I choose Hope, I choose Love. Not fake happiness or living without problems. We all have that. I have the same power in me, that rose Jesus from the grave. I’m protected here on earth. I know where I’m going when I die, and I have no fear in dying. Bring on the next adventure. God will have mercy for most that accepted Jesus & then walked sway. The pull of the world is strong. I just want to be stronger than those desires. I don’t have to understand everything to know that following God helps my life flow, in a way it didn’t before.
I love that you read Lewis books. He’s the best. I ordered a few books from a response on this post. “ Unraveling Faith” by Rachel Evans. I like new ideas and opinions. I’m not so stuck that I stop looking at new ideas and thoughts. My mom was raised much like this post. She went to church 3-4 days a week and her father was a self- ordained minister. ( a-hole, crazy man) 🙈
He beat his boys like a bar room fight, and used his belt regularly. My mom had no interest in church after marrying and having kids. She had seen all the hypocrisy & said she lives everyday of her childhood, thinking God was coming the next day. So I get it.
I’m not judgmental to those that fall away from God, it makes me sad for them. I’m not involved in a church right now and I know it’s important. I will. I’ve seen my share of church members that don’t live up to what?! My expectations? The Bible’s? Who knows. 🤗
It’s not about “ religion” it’s about a relationship. I don’t know what I would do without that steady rhythm of support I feel from Jesus. I don’t/ can’t get that from anyone else. Everyone else has let me down at some point.
I won’t go on & try to convince you of something you seen so certain of. I’ll just say that if you could look through God’s eyes at you, and see what HE sees in you, you’d get it. HE sees all your troubles, flaws, & questions, & loves you more than a human parent could. HE can make your life here so much more manageable. HE is just waiting for you to ask for help. Prayer changes everything. It does. Ok, I’m done. Take care & go live your best life. ✌🏼💕
Why would something that's evolved necessarily be random? There are a lot more things in this world that have a factual, knowable, scientific explanation than things that are random and coincidental. And the things that are random and coincidental are things that you would expect to be, like running into a friend you haven't seen in several decades at an airport in another city kind of stuff.
Just because I don't know and understand something doesn't mean it's not capable of being explained and understood. It certainly doesn't compel me to draw on folk tales from previous millennia and a misogynistic creation of gender roles in a way that permits more physically powerful men to dominate and women to be considered rib afterthoughts, dependent on the most important physical capacity they have that men don't: the ability to incubate babies.
Yes! I stumbled over the writing of Isacc Bashevetiz Singer (I think I'm messing up the spelling) and the idea of a mitzvah - kindness done not to please the Cosmic Book Keeper endlessly tallying up your good/bad score, but simply because it makes the world a little better pleases me greatly. Do it quietly, no one needs to know.
That’s not what the Bible teaches. You can’t “ earn” your way to heaven by doing good deeds. At the same time, I believe that living a life full of sin after sin, without repentance, doesn’t ensure your future either. God knows your heart & is full of Grace. We don’t have to be perfect. We never could be. Lots of people see hypocrisies with churches & organized religion. That’s the people, not God.
If you think about it, what could be more boring and unsatisfying than an eternity sitting around the throne and singing praises. For eternity! That, too, would be a form of hell.
Yes! I've always thought eternal life sounded really exhausting. Tho what I think I would like, would be to be able to come back for a brief visit, maybe every five years or so and probably in invisible form, just to see what was going on. Curiosity being a major motivating characteristic for me. But no, I don't believe in any form of afterlife and wouldn't care to.
I’ll let you know. Sounds pretty awesome to me. Remember the feeling you had on your very best day? Like hitting the grand slam to win the championship? That’s the feeling it will feel like, 24/7 every minute. Loving God and my people and others forever? I’m in. 💕 Sorry your life has been so sucky that you can’t imagine a perfect
Funny you should mention that. Actually, my life has gone the way I wanted it to:; exciting and fulfilling. That's why I can't imagine heaven as a perfect scenario. And, sorry, "imagine" i'm afraid, is the operative word here.
Laughter is good. Satan is not. My accountability is just fine. How’s your judgment of others? You can laugh & be sarcastic as much as you want. I only have love for you, truly. I hope you see how God sees you soon because He couldn’t love you more. 😇 💕
Same peace to you. I wasn’t saying you’re in hell. I don’t believe it’s one or the other. God has a plan after we die. I’m not a believer just to be part of that plan. There’s support & love right here on earth that remains unchanged no matter what. Too much here divides us. I’m hoping one day we all can live without the judgment & sorrows of this crazy place. Best wishes to you for a long healthy life. 💕
The irony of you saying “too much here divides us” and “I’m hoping one day we can all live without the judgement” and yet…your original comment included the line “Sorry your life has been so sucky that you can’t imagine a perfect scenario like heaven. I can.” That is a divisive statement that drips in judgement, implicating you’re better off because of your beliefs. It’s the hypocrisy for me. Yikes.
People are full of messiness & sin. God is not. Hypocrisy is seen because humans aren’t perfect. I never will be. You never will be. Only Jesus was. I hope you take the time to know Him & don’t put all your faith in people. That’s why churches can fail. They are run by people, as much as God leads them. I know my heart and God knows my intentions. I only have to answer to Him.
Amber, how do you know? Really KNOWS?! You don’t. God has infinite powers & has a sense of humor too. If HE told me to go tell someone what I saw, I’d do it. I’m so grateful to my God, I’d do that, no question. There’s no problems with the “ plan”, the only problems are people that lack faith. They see what the world shows them. I’ve had a type of ‘knowing there was more’, from childhood. Not from indoctrination either. My mom never talked positive about “ religion” and more annoyed that I was curious.
God has a sense of humor? I guess he thought it was hilarious when he watched Israel blow up 38,000 Gazans...and when he tortured my mother for years before he killed her.
God is sad for everything we are sad about. There have been deaths on both sides of the Israel war. The narrative we see lately demonizes Israel but if you get your info. from uncensored news, and look at the real history, Israel has fed Gaza in the past & allowed shipments essential for them. The same cannot be said for Gaza. There is an approved narrative on mainstream, just like the Covid mess, that doesn’t allow truth to easily be seen. That’s why I like Substack.
I’m sorry about your mother but God didn’t wish that on her. I don’t know the circumstances but this world is full of pain & suffering. We were never meant to walk it alone, without His help. I watched my best friend die at the hands of a narcissist husband & hospital protocols that allowed her to suffer far too long before she passed. I wouldn’t have believed it’s possible in modern times to allow this. The hospital finally stepped in & eased her physical pain. ( husband was not allowing pain meds as P.O.A.) 🙈
I’m truly sorry about your mom. The death of a mom is the worst heartbreak. 💕
Sorry for all your losses. I grew up going to funerals a lot too. It’s a lot harder on people left behind. I was talking about after we both pass away & I somehow get to let non-believers know.
I think God will have Mercy & Grace for some in certain circumstances. I just know the best is yet to come. ✌🏼💕
Firstly, I’m grown…this is not my remembrance of childhood. Interesting concept that you will be able to communicate with non believers who will be in hell?!?!? That’s one I have never heard. I appreciate your condolences, but it’s really not necessary. New evangelical nightmare unlocked though…going to hell and continuing to receive nagging information from believers in heaven. It’s exhausting, really, the amount of pretend scenarios people create. Anyway, peace to you…here and now.
Lynn - over on a book challenge, one of my entries is The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels. It was so liberating to this "one jot and one tittle" former Baptist.
My moment came when a book I was reading pointed out that the Bible was written by men in a patriarchal society who had a vested interest in keeping it patriarchal, not by God. I am now a devout atheist and feel deep sorrow for all the war, killing, and hatred that has occurred because of religion. I agree that church groups and other religious organizations have done a lot of good for their communities and brought comfort to believers but that doesn't make up for all the harm that has been done. Maybe if fewer humans had believed in Heaven, they would have done more to create a heaven on earth.
What fascinates me is that so many religious people perform acts of charity to please their god, not out of true love and compassion for others. It's bargaining. If the deity is pleased, it will bring good fortune. This is a belief shared by pagans and monotheists alike.
So much in our life is transactional (some would argue, philosophically, that *everything* is, in one way or another, transactional), and there is great utility in that, but only a cold kind of beauty, if any. We glow when we transcend the transactional.
Exactly. By Jesus dying on the cross, he gifts those that believe in Him, everlasting life. I don’t give HIM anything but my love. And that I give willingly, without question. It’s AGAPE love both ways. Beyond our comprehension for sure. You can’t buy your way into heaven, by good deeds, money given to the church, or power. It’s a gift.
Must be why they ID with Trump. Always making a deal.
You can’t earn your way to heaven. It’s a gift.
Uh huh. A “gift.” And the alternative is torture.
Wouldn’t a loving god do something to end the torment of Hell?
A loving god would not create hell in the first place. And that's because this god would not create bad people.
Then we would all be good puppets. I like having a brain to critically think, make mistakes and improve, etc. “Free Will” allows us this. To see all the options, explore it all, and then decide what makes sense in our views. Jesus came to build a bridge between God & people. It’s hard for us to understand because we can’t see everything the way God does. That’s where faith comes in. It’s the hypothesis in science and it’s critical for both.
Maybe Satan caused the evil in our world? My Bible knowledge isn’t perfect but I remember a GARDEN OF EDEN, that sounded pretty perfect.
Hmm.. always more to learn. Meanwhile, I’m happy that God will judge the Covid elite planner’s of the virus/ vaccine genocide. “ Vengeance is Mine” Romans 12:19
That vengeful god needs to be put on the shelf forever. No one needs a god who destroys more of creation than he saves.
How did HE destroy it?? Wow, you think God created this beautiful world, only to destroy it?
We are destroying it, by following Satan & the ways of this world. Sorry you can’t see that. I can’t imagine one day without God. Honest. I’ve seen more miracles than I can count. Not just coincidences, but true miracles. Too many have put God on a shelf, out of our schools, etc. The result is what you see now. Nope, Satan won’t win in the end. God has never lost a battle. It’s too late when Jesus returns. He will judge us all. It’s a little comfort for those that lost loved ones during the Covid scandal. There were millions. God knows. 😇💕
Merry Christmas!
He did do something. He bought your salvation from Satan by sending his son to die on the cross. That’s the reason you can’t “ earn” your way to heaven. Because God already won the spiritual war for us. He didn’t make us puppets that automatically follow him. We have the choice to believe or not. God could have created a world without wars, without pain & suffering and he tried. Adam and Eve paved the way for sin by rejecting God’s instructions.
They HAD everything, and still gave in to the temptations. That’s what we have done for centuries. Got rid of the one thing that is good, true, and holy; God. There will come a day, and everyone will see Him and know the truth. All your questions will be answered about love, Satan, & hell. We don’t have to understand everything & we don’t. We only have to have faith enough to follow God. It’s not complicated, love God & love others. That’s it. Simple. We don’t have to be perfect, because we never could be. Only Jesus was.
Read “ Mere Christianity”- C.S. Lewis explains this so brilliantly. I just know for me, nothing else makes sense. Plus, I’ve seen true miracles in my life that are otherwise unexplainable. HE is too good, to not believe. You don’t know what you don’t know. And you can’t know, unless you get closer to God to find out. It will blow your mind. Seriously. Take a step of faith & see. Many have researched to prove it’s all a myth, or brainwashing, or whatever & what they find is it’s all true. Everything in the Bible historically, has come to pass. The great flood? It happened. Proof is out there, go find it.
I’ve read 11 of Lewis’s books. Still an apostate.
I’ve heard this exact song and dance before. I lived it for 22 years.
Free will is pointless when the wrong choice ends with with eternal damnation.
But at least there’s a choice. I would hate to be a puppet, unable to follow & praise my choice of a savior. God could’ve made us that way. What kind of followers would that make? Soul- less puppets, would be the result right? The kind of people that the planners of United Nations “ ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT & RELIGION “ want.
The point of “ choice” is everything. It’s faith in its truest form. It’s not a myth or folklore just because we can’t wrap our head around this kind of love. ( I’m responding to another response here)
Yes, great floods (plural) happened 12,000 to 15,000 years ago when the glaciers melted, which is why so many regions have tales about it. There's also one in the tale of Gilgamesh Jess Piper mentioned above, along with a tree of knowledge guarded by a talking snake with a human head. Gilgamesh is Sumerian/Babylonian (remember, where the Biblical Jews were slaves?) and is twice as old as the Bible, as are a lot of ancient Egyptian myths they also borrowed (where they were also slaves.)
I've mentioned elsewhere all the previous men-gods that died and were resurrected long before Jesus. And Lynn Manley is right the so-called Church Fathers dumped a lot of other gospels (James, Thomas, and more) because they all said Mary Magdalene was Jesus' beloved and best apostle to turn Christianity into a male-dominated faith. But they're available to read now in some collections called "The Apocryphal Gospels". Apocrypha means shunted, put away, which is exactly what they did. And some of them are far more spiritual than what got shoved down our throats, imo.
I'm afraid that it's your take, and CS Lewis's, that shows little or no research at all. Real Bible scholars find just what I said above, and more. You're both just listening to preachers.
C.S.Lewis isn’t my “ research”, but he explains human nature & God in a way I appreciate.
I understand. And reassure yourself that although research convinces most that all religions are man-made, that doesn't automatically turn them into atheists. The 17th & 18th century Enlightenment was full of deists who still believed in "a higher power" - despite religion (which was still persecuting and torturing people in those days) because as Voltaire said, whether you read Jesus, Confucius, Mahomet or Marcus Aurelius, basic morals seem just as universal as the physical laws of gravity that Newton demonstrated. And he felt that that fact, plus further perfections in the universe science was beginning to discover, transcended all religions and spoke for a greater, less tribal and childish power than all of them portrayed. He expressed feelings like you do below on the wonders of life at times.
Re Christianity, I quite appreciated two books by Garry Wills, "What Jesus Meant" and "What Paul Meant" even though I'm not a believer in the Bible like he is. Both are excellent though on how some preachers misconstrue or deform things.
It's good you have an open mind. Seek and ye shall find!
Thanks, I’ll check the books out. I’ve been watching the series “ Chosen” too & although they have taken some creative freedoms to make it more relatable, it follows the Bible & makes Jesus feel more real. He wasn’t meant to come & just spread love, he came with a sword to stir men’s hearts & prepare them to fight evil.
Mathew 10:34
The Covid chaos, Agenda 30, & future fake pandemics, is all an example of corrupt evil. This is a spiritual war that was documented in the Bible. Even the digital money in exchange for goods and services is in there. ( The Mark of the Beast) Gods not cowering at this. Either am I. The corporate elite hate the family unit, churches, and all our freedoms. Their plan is to take it all away. Churches weren’t seen as essential during lockdowns, but pot shops & other questionable businesses were. Why??!
Because they know the power that Jesus has.
It’s good vs. evil, that’s the choice. Choose carefully & soon. There will come a day when choosing won’t be available. Truth will always win. And evil can’t hide & deceive forever. 😇
Thanks for your long and thoughtful reply. It deserves as much IN reply!
For starts, I always smile at Matthew 10:34 because indeed, Jesus most definitely did not bring peace to the world. Christianity ultimately brought 1300 years of inquisitions, crusades, religious massacres, persecutions, unspeakable tortures and saw untold numbers of "witches" and "heretics" burned alive.
But I blame that on the greedy power-mongers that weaponized Jesus, much more than on Jesus. However, it's always very important to bear in mind just how much evil religion can, and has, produced over the ages.
Agreed re Covid & fake pandemics. And digital money. (Insane!) But it's absurd to say - lefties, I assume, since you're "almost the last Republican? - hate families, churches and our freedoms. Most of them have families they love, some go to churches and the smart ones fight tooth and nail for our freedoms. Jess is one, imo.
Is this the UN Agenda 30 with its 17 goals you're talking about? https://sdgs.un.org/goals. I'm straining to see what's "evil" in it. Enlighten me.
And the reason shops were OK but not churches during lockdowns had to do with the masses of people in churches vs small shops, where "social distancing' was possible. Concerts, theaters and cinemas were also closed, if you recall. Nothing to do with Jesus. Let's be logical (however Illogical the lockdowns were, agreed. You may not know that many thousands of scientists from Harvard, Oxford, Stanford and all over the world protested it way back in 2020. Over 900,000 toward the end. And that contained an awful lot of non-religious "lefties". Check it out: https://gbdeclaration.org/
Good vs evil is a VERY important choice, I agree! But religion has never had any monopoly on "good", as I detailed above. The oligarchy (I prefer kleptocracy) is definitely our real foe, and they own Republicans and Democrats alike (esp Trump, who aspires to BE one!!).
But ultra-rich people trying to buy up all the power is a constant throughout history. The Founders knew it, and did their best to prevent it here with laws and a Constitution too few respect these days (which includes separating church and state, for all the reasons mentioned above, which they were well aware of. The Inquisition was still active in the 18C in Europe. And other kinds of persecutions...)
Even Jesus told the priests that whores and tax-collectors would enter God's reign before they did. (Mt 21:31). And I frankly interpret "the truth will set you free" very differently than most preachers do.
Also remember that Christ was not a Christian. That system (AND its "sacred writings") were gradually built up over a couple of centuries after his death - by more greedy (& misogynistic) power-mongers taking over where the Pharisees left off. Neither Jesus nor Paul were misogynistic, as the Wills books will help explain.
So think on all that. And you choose carefully too!
Rosa Koire - author of Behind the Green Mask & many YouTube videos, explains the U.N. “ goals”. The book & videos are dated a bit but the info. is spot on correct. It’s like Covid & all the rest of the “ dual- purpose” programs; it always looks good on paper but the reality is horrendous. The Covid virus & vaccines ( bioweapons) deployed were not a mistake. They were well thought out to be deadly. Our DOD contracted with Pfizer & they both knew they would cause harm & kill. FDA & CDC knew as well. Those that didn’t, but still had a conscience, made for the great exodus- leaving agencies at the roll- out. This included dr.s , nurses, etc. Sad that many well- intentioned medical professionals had to leave their once loved profession because of a few cowardly elite planners. The plan goes back decades.
Please look into Rosa Koire book. If you search long enough you can find a free PDF of the book. It explains a lot and the true intentions of the U. N. unravels. I agree, reading the info. looks fine, but when you see the ultimate power grab intended, it will blow your mind.
Rosa Koire passed away from cancer but the book and info. she left, keeps her memory alive. It just proves what a legacy one person can leave to better our world.
I don’t have ill- will for Democrats. W.H.O., & corporate elie, gov. officials- especially our DOD & others, is what I meant by “ planners” of Covid virus & vaccines. Fauci, NIH, of course. These are the evils ones that hate our American way & wish to enslave us into 15 min. cities. It’s in the planning now, all over the world. ( Rosa Koire “ enlightened me”) You cant unsee it after you know & see it yourself. Someone here on Substack introduced me. 👍
C.S. Lewis “ Mere Christianity” talks about sin & brilliantly explains your priest & whore scenario. This book explained a lot for me & simplified text in the Bible. I’m still learning a lot but my foundation is strong & solid. I don’t think we can ever know all the details. Besides the devil is in the details. 🙈
It didn’t take long for evil to take advantage of Jesus teachings and take what Jesus gave us & complicate it. This is not God’s fault or lack of planning. This was to clearly weed out the followers from the others. Wars & fighting, Wa witch burnings, and Christian deaths, will all be judged someday. It’s not my job to judge others. If I judge a church member as a God, and leave my faith because of a man, that’s on me. That’s not God. There’s so much we can’t understand, but I understand that. Evil slips into any crack in your faith. I’ll reread your response and text more later. On my way to have Nana time with 2 adorable girls. 🥰
I'm an atheist.
No, it's a myth.
I just watched a show about Tolkien & C.S. Lewis discussing myth & religion, faith, etc. Myth is a huge part of the human experience into reasoning & faith. They were skilled in this area. C.S. Lewis was an atheist too, until his mythical understanding gave him his REAL LIFE understanding. Once you see what CAN be, along with the historical truths of the Bible, you can’t unsee it. ( much like the Covid chaos)
I hope you read the Lewis book. What can it hurt? It might just change your life. It changed his. 🤗 Merry Christmas! ( regardless of your choice) If you message me, I’d send you a copy. It’s that important.
The book “ Believing is seeing” by Michael Guillen talks about science & the unseen. He is a PhD and was an atheist until he started researching the similarities in science & your “ folk tale religion/ mythology “. ( I call Christianity)
There’s so much science doesn’t know and can’t be explained. I’m sorry you don’t feel there’s more to life than what you see or believe. God is real to me. It’s always been that way for me. I was not brainwashed from youth, if anything, my mom tried to squash my wanting to know more. I asked to go to church. She went so much as a child, and was around many religious hypocrites growing up. I get that. But people make the church and the experience negative, not God.
There’s a reason the Bible has been around so long and there’s a reason some can’t see it, while others can’t look away. I don’t have all the answers, none of us do. But I know my redeemer lives and I know there’s great evil in this world. I’ve seen too much to not believe. I first had faith and still do but the miracles I’ve seen solidified my faith. He is not a myth & he stands up for women & treasures them. We can’t make babies alone- we are meant to love others.
Okay, well then you really have more faith than I do. There’s no way I could look at all the inexplainable beauty of the earth, look at a newborn baby, watch miracles happen, and not think it’s all coincidence. That’s faith that you have in a world full of evil & lies. I see God everywhere I look. I guess whatever you focus on, you see more of. I choose Joy. I choose Hope, I choose Love. Not fake happiness or living without problems. We all have that. I have the same power in me, that rose Jesus from the grave. I’m protected here on earth. I know where I’m going when I die, and I have no fear in dying. Bring on the next adventure. God will have mercy for most that accepted Jesus & then walked sway. The pull of the world is strong. I just want to be stronger than those desires. I don’t have to understand everything to know that following God helps my life flow, in a way it didn’t before.
I love that you read Lewis books. He’s the best. I ordered a few books from a response on this post. “ Unraveling Faith” by Rachel Evans. I like new ideas and opinions. I’m not so stuck that I stop looking at new ideas and thoughts. My mom was raised much like this post. She went to church 3-4 days a week and her father was a self- ordained minister. ( a-hole, crazy man) 🙈
He beat his boys like a bar room fight, and used his belt regularly. My mom had no interest in church after marrying and having kids. She had seen all the hypocrisy & said she lives everyday of her childhood, thinking God was coming the next day. So I get it.
I’m not judgmental to those that fall away from God, it makes me sad for them. I’m not involved in a church right now and I know it’s important. I will. I’ve seen my share of church members that don’t live up to what?! My expectations? The Bible’s? Who knows. 🤗
It’s not about “ religion” it’s about a relationship. I don’t know what I would do without that steady rhythm of support I feel from Jesus. I don’t/ can’t get that from anyone else. Everyone else has let me down at some point.
I won’t go on & try to convince you of something you seen so certain of. I’ll just say that if you could look through God’s eyes at you, and see what HE sees in you, you’d get it. HE sees all your troubles, flaws, & questions, & loves you more than a human parent could. HE can make your life here so much more manageable. HE is just waiting for you to ask for help. Prayer changes everything. It does. Ok, I’m done. Take care & go live your best life. ✌🏼💕
Meant in the beginning that I couldn’t look at this world and think it’s all random evolved beauty & coincidences that happen.
Why would something that's evolved necessarily be random? There are a lot more things in this world that have a factual, knowable, scientific explanation than things that are random and coincidental. And the things that are random and coincidental are things that you would expect to be, like running into a friend you haven't seen in several decades at an airport in another city kind of stuff.
Just because I don't know and understand something doesn't mean it's not capable of being explained and understood. It certainly doesn't compel me to draw on folk tales from previous millennia and a misogynistic creation of gender roles in a way that permits more physically powerful men to dominate and women to be considered rib afterthoughts, dependent on the most important physical capacity they have that men don't: the ability to incubate babies.
Yes! I stumbled over the writing of Isacc Bashevetiz Singer (I think I'm messing up the spelling) and the idea of a mitzvah - kindness done not to please the Cosmic Book Keeper endlessly tallying up your good/bad score, but simply because it makes the world a little better pleases me greatly. Do it quietly, no one needs to know.
That’s not what the Bible teaches. You can’t “ earn” your way to heaven by doing good deeds. At the same time, I believe that living a life full of sin after sin, without repentance, doesn’t ensure your future either. God knows your heart & is full of Grace. We don’t have to be perfect. We never could be. Lots of people see hypocrisies with churches & organized religion. That’s the people, not God.
If you think about it, what could be more boring and unsatisfying than an eternity sitting around the throne and singing praises. For eternity! That, too, would be a form of hell.
Yes! I've always thought eternal life sounded really exhausting. Tho what I think I would like, would be to be able to come back for a brief visit, maybe every five years or so and probably in invisible form, just to see what was going on. Curiosity being a major motivating characteristic for me. But no, I don't believe in any form of afterlife and wouldn't care to.
I’ll take nothing please :)
I’ll let you know. Sounds pretty awesome to me. Remember the feeling you had on your very best day? Like hitting the grand slam to win the championship? That’s the feeling it will feel like, 24/7 every minute. Loving God and my people and others forever? I’m in. 💕 Sorry your life has been so sucky that you can’t imagine a perfect
scenario like heaven. I can.
Funny you should mention that. Actually, my life has gone the way I wanted it to:; exciting and fulfilling. That's why I can't imagine heaven as a perfect scenario. And, sorry, "imagine" i'm afraid, is the operative word here.
I can only imagine
What it will be like
When I walk by Your side
I can only imagine
What my eyes would see
When Your face is before me
I can only imagine
Yeah
Surrounded by Your glory
What will my heart feel?
Will I dance for You Jesus
Or in awe of You be still?
Will I stand in Your presence
Or to my knees, will I fall?
Will I sing hallelujah?
Will I be able to speak at all?
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
When that day comes
And I find myself
Standing in the Son
I can only imagine
When all I will do
Is forever, forever worship You
I can only imagine, yeah
I can only imagine
Surrounded by Your glory
What will my heart feel?
Will I dance for you Jesus
Or in awe of You be still?
Will I stand in your presence
Or to my knees will I fall?
Will I sing hallelujah?
Will I be able to speak at all?
I can only imagine, yeah
I can only imagine
Surrounded by Your glory
What will my heart feel?
Will I dance for you Jesus
Or in awe of You be still?
Will I stand in your presence
Or to my knees, will I fall?
Will I sing hallelujah?
Will I be able to speak at all?
I can only imagine, yeah
I can only imagine
I can only imagine, yeah-yeah
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
I can only imagine
When all I will do
Is forever, forever worship You
I can only imagine
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Bart Millard
https://youtu.be/N_lrrq_opng?si=NwVxEBwLM-JhtXd8
I can ONLY imagine, and that’s fine with me. 😇
Whatever works for you is just fine.
Amen
Have you been there? Do you know anyone who has been there, come back and told you about it?
Laughter is good. Satan is not. My accountability is just fine. How’s your judgment of others? You can laugh & be sarcastic as much as you want. I only have love for you, truly. I hope you see how God sees you soon because He couldn’t love you more. 😇 💕
Same peace to you. I wasn’t saying you’re in hell. I don’t believe it’s one or the other. God has a plan after we die. I’m not a believer just to be part of that plan. There’s support & love right here on earth that remains unchanged no matter what. Too much here divides us. I’m hoping one day we all can live without the judgment & sorrows of this crazy place. Best wishes to you for a long healthy life. 💕
The irony of you saying “too much here divides us” and “I’m hoping one day we can all live without the judgement” and yet…your original comment included the line “Sorry your life has been so sucky that you can’t imagine a perfect scenario like heaven. I can.” That is a divisive statement that drips in judgement, implicating you’re better off because of your beliefs. It’s the hypocrisy for me. Yikes.
People are full of messiness & sin. God is not. Hypocrisy is seen because humans aren’t perfect. I never will be. You never will be. Only Jesus was. I hope you take the time to know Him & don’t put all your faith in people. That’s why churches can fail. They are run by people, as much as God leads them. I know my heart and God knows my intentions. I only have to answer to Him.
“God knows my heart.” — a Christian’s favorite way to avoid accountability 🤣
Anything to avoid saying “That wasn’t very Christ-like of me.”.
Thanks for the laughs! Have a blessed day, sweetheart.
You actually won’t let anyone know if you experience this…that’s just another hang up of the whole system 💕💕💕
Amber, how do you know? Really KNOWS?! You don’t. God has infinite powers & has a sense of humor too. If HE told me to go tell someone what I saw, I’d do it. I’m so grateful to my God, I’d do that, no question. There’s no problems with the “ plan”, the only problems are people that lack faith. They see what the world shows them. I’ve had a type of ‘knowing there was more’, from childhood. Not from indoctrination either. My mom never talked positive about “ religion” and more annoyed that I was curious.
Maybe that made me more willing to explore?
God has a sense of humor? I guess he thought it was hilarious when he watched Israel blow up 38,000 Gazans...and when he tortured my mother for years before he killed her.
God is sad for everything we are sad about. There have been deaths on both sides of the Israel war. The narrative we see lately demonizes Israel but if you get your info. from uncensored news, and look at the real history, Israel has fed Gaza in the past & allowed shipments essential for them. The same cannot be said for Gaza. There is an approved narrative on mainstream, just like the Covid mess, that doesn’t allow truth to easily be seen. That’s why I like Substack.
I’m sorry about your mother but God didn’t wish that on her. I don’t know the circumstances but this world is full of pain & suffering. We were never meant to walk it alone, without His help. I watched my best friend die at the hands of a narcissist husband & hospital protocols that allowed her to suffer far too long before she passed. I wouldn’t have believed it’s possible in modern times to allow this. The hospital finally stepped in & eased her physical pain. ( husband was not allowing pain meds as P.O.A.) 🙈
I’m truly sorry about your mom. The death of a mom is the worst heartbreak. 💕
How do you really KNOW? You don’t period. I have had many believers in my family die and guess what none of them have reported back on the experience.
Sorry for all your losses. I grew up going to funerals a lot too. It’s a lot harder on people left behind. I was talking about after we both pass away & I somehow get to let non-believers know.
I think God will have Mercy & Grace for some in certain circumstances. I just know the best is yet to come. ✌🏼💕
Firstly, I’m grown…this is not my remembrance of childhood. Interesting concept that you will be able to communicate with non believers who will be in hell?!?!? That’s one I have never heard. I appreciate your condolences, but it’s really not necessary. New evangelical nightmare unlocked though…going to hell and continuing to receive nagging information from believers in heaven. It’s exhausting, really, the amount of pretend scenarios people create. Anyway, peace to you…here and now.
Lynn - over on a book challenge, one of my entries is The Gnostic Gospels by Elaine Pagels. It was so liberating to this "one jot and one tittle" former Baptist.