I live in Brooklyn ny. It's easy to be progressive there. I bumped into your substack. It takes grit to be progressive in rural Missouri. I completely admire your efforts.
If libertarians were about freedom, they would actually be for open borders, but of course they aren't. Protecting their own wealth and property is why.
Yes, I live in San Francisco where the Lump got less than 15% vote, and in Rome where no one cares about government. They never did and they never will. It is easy for us to be progressive but as you said, my hats off to Jess
I have got no idea how I came across Jess’ posts (shurely shome algorithm thingy). I have got no connection to Missouri, I have never been there and are unlikely to visit. Jess’ writing is what’s making me come back and like you I admire her.
I live in California, where it should be easy to be a progressive, but it’s not. I am in a rural California town, which is very Maga. Big trucks, big flags, big exhausts. Yesterday I signed up for a meeting of like minded Dems for the first time but I am not a meeting type of person and was thinking of canceling. (And it’s 25 miles away) Your post today has motivated me to follow through. Take care❣️
I hope the meeting was good. I live across Puget Sound from Seattle, and getting involved in the local Democratic Party has proven both interesting and enlightening. Good luck!!
Hi Ellen, The meeting was good:) I met 4 new friends willing to fight the good fight-oh, and had some delicious chili😉I am ready to do more face to face interactions after stepping out of my comfort zone.
I live West of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge after moving from Seattle’s Eastside. it seems 50/50 around here, the more rural the more red. One of the local legislative districts just flipped blue and there’s an active Indivisible chapter. I’m getting an idea of what it’s like for progressives living in ultra red areas
Yeah, it's kind of unpredictable, but the trend (at least up here in Kitsap) has been towards blue. Not sure if you share my enthusiasm for Emily Randall (guessing you are also in WA06) but damn--I can't WAIT to see what she does in Congress!
Yes, I live in the WA 6th CD and look forward to seeing Emily in action. I also have a feeling that WA LD 26 is trending blue with Addison Richards flipping position 1.
Hi Christine, I live in Oakland, CA, and I wrote lots of postcards for candidates in rural California. You have your work cut out for you, but it's worth doing. I'm relieved that George Whitesides won.
Christine--I'm in the same boat. My experience with my local dem group was disheartening. A bunch of old, white people who think bingo night is a great fundraiser. So I started flying flags of my own and putting up signs. NGL, I've been harassed a lot. But I have to live with my own conscience, and I'll keep fighting until they drag me off to wherever.
Oh indeed. My son has ADHD and anxiety and struggled in school. People kept telling me, “send him to private school!” When we looked into it, we discovered that the private schools are not required to accommodate special needs kids in any way and his first classroom meltdown would have resulted in harsh punishments or expulsion. We turned to an advocate who helped us with an education plan that — guess what — our public school is required to follow. He is mostly thriving now. I don’t know what we will do if the department of education is dissolved.
Thank you, Margaret. Contacting our Senators and Representatives every day, or at least as often as people can, is very important. I know mine all feel the same way I do about this MAGA attempted destruction of American government. But I've heard over and over that even so, hearing from their constituents really makes a positive difference in their behavior.
I'm sure it's even more critical to let elected Republican politicians know how much you are against the MAGA agenda because many of them are going along with it just to keep their jobs or protect their families from Dump's retribution...the heck with their oaths of office or protecting their constituents. They need to hear often from every one of their voters who rejects the MAGA agenda.
When they feel like their job is in jeopardy from a large, percentage of their voters who call their office in opposition to the Republican anti-democracy, anti-average citizen, pro-authoritarian agenda, they are likely going to be careful how they vote on various MAGA/Project 2025 agenda items that the public can track.
Also, good luck with your grandson's IEP. I know those programs do good things for children who just need a little different accomodation to thrive in school. We need a country of educated citizens, not a vast throng of ignorant voters whose schools were deliberately defunded and ignored by arrogant, self-important politicians who want this country "ruled" by a small group of rich, white, "Christian" men.
What's IEP? (Don't assume everyojne kows your acronyms unless they're in common parlance, like MPH, DNA, and HIV. And if I were using acronyms, I might mention ICE, which in one of my worlds stands for "internal combustion engine."
IEP stands for Individualized Education Plan. In teacher-ese it’s as well-known as the acronyms u mentioned:) I totally get where you are coming from; I just had to look up fafo🙃
Somehow I doubt that it's even 100th as well known as HIV, DNA, and MPH, except among teachers. I don't hang around under rocks--I get out into the world, and I've never heard it before. FAFO is also obscure. I've seen it once before, and had to look it up.
Obscure acronyms do to the flow of prose what a dead cow does to the flow of a stream.
Individual Education Plan. It’s a legal document spelling out what accommodations a school (district) will make for a student who has been diagnosed with a disability. Examples: it might include additional resources, modified lessons, support from a special education teacher or paraprofessional, transportation, or behavior plan. There are other possible accommodations.
I have faith that red Moms in red states also want to keep federal $$ flowing for their child's accommodations through the Dept of Ed!! Kids with IEPs don't follow state lines. They'll be real vocal about *major cuts* to such a imperative initiative the more the better. <3
I suspect there are a lot of Quaker private schools, and based on the one I went to during the early-mid '60s, I suspect they'd accommodate special needs kids. In fact, I can't imagine they wouldn't. But I don't 100% guarantee that.
Of course, knowing the little I know about my old school's current policies, I suspect a lot of contemporary Quaker schools might be overly woke, in ways that would stifle some of the education we got. (We studied the Vikings, the ancient Greeks, including their gods and the Trojan War, and I'm one of those kids who would leave whenever my friends (at home, not school) wanted to play "war" because I just wasn't interested, but I must have read at least five different versions of the Iliad, and at least several different versions of the Trojan war.
I completely agree with your comment about selfish, privileged libertarians. I would also add arrogant. I've known a few myself and they think that because they can survive without "government assistance" or "welfare" that everyone can. They have no answer for what happens when there is a problem. Keep up the fight!
In one of Kehoe’s TV ads, he bragged that his family qualified for assistance, but didn’t accept it. It’s not just Libertarians. It’s lack of empathy. And it’s a sickness of the soul.
I forgot where I read and who said it but to paraphrase it, Libertarians are like house cats. They like to pretend that they are fiercely independent yet they are 100% dependent on the system they think they are independent of.
To be fair, a lot of rural folks have wells which they have paid to have dug themselves. But still like everyone, they expect government to be there when they want it to be. Without seemingly understanding that it isn't just for them and sometimes will do things they don't want because it helps someone else.
I think they are bad citizens too. They act like they have no obligation to the people around them. Everyone is part of a family, a community, a town, a state, a country and we have an obligation TO them and we have expectations OF them. That’s the way the world works, the way human society has always worked.
I heard someone, somewhere once say (I’m paraphrasing): “libertarians are enamored of the idea of the survival of the fittest, and they believe they are the fittest.” So many of them live in this Social Darwinian fantasy camp; It’s a thought experiment and nothing more.
I started laughing when I read your post. A couple decades ago, a bunch of libertarians moved to a small town in NH (no income taxes in NH) and proceeded to try to take it over. The whole thing fell apart because, being libertarians, nobody could "make" them do anything, so nothing got done. The libertarians argued with each other and then drifted away. I heard housing was cheap for a while, but now the town is back doing things the New England way, from what I hear. This is a true story, well-documented in the news at the time.
They think they don't get "govt assistance", but they do. They just take it for granted. They forget that they owe a huge back debt for everything they own, because the real costs were passed on as "external costs", born by other people in the form of displacement or unpaid labor, or simply passed on to the future to pay. We are holding quite a lot of that right now.
Well put but I would suggest that instead of “because they can survive…”. should be amended to read “because they think they can survive”. Even Charles K gets a great deal of benefit from the government.
Largely white guys, and there is a slew of these types in IT Industry, the concentration of them in spoiled silly Silicon Valley is very high. Thiel is the tip of the iceberg.
It’s true that the billionaires tend to be libertarians but most libertarians aren’t even close to rich. So many don’t have the proverbial pot to p—s in or the window to throw it out of!
I hope that you asked him how a libertarian could support taking medical choices out of the hands of women and their doctors. I hope you asked him why a libertarian would support enforcing a particular lifestyle on LGBQT people. I hope you asked him why a libertarian would support a specific religious study to be forced an all kids regardless of their own family's beliefs. By the way, thank you for going to the meeting and having whatever conversation that was possible. Few would do what you do. Most of us are too afraid or too tired or too pissed off.
That’s even more infuriating. Their stance on abortion, if they *actually* cared about freedom for anyone other than themselves (and since they are overwhelmingly male they probably just don’t care because it’s not their problem), if they were actually being consistent, should be that the government should be hands off people’s bodies. But it’s not people, of course, it’s only women. And thus they haven’t even given it a thought because why would they?
Yes, Jessica. Why would they care about their mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, nieces, female friends and neighbors?
Why should they be expected to care:
if women in their towns and cities are bleeding out in cars in hospital parking lots after being rejected in emergency rooms, waiting to be "sick" enough to be treated by their doctors;
if women lose their ability to have children they desperately want due to inadequate care after a miscarriage;
if women suffer greatly while carrying a dying baby for months that doctors know will expire shortly after birth while those babies gasp for air and then die in their parents' arms;
if girls who were raped by their fathers or relatives become pregnant and are forced to give birth to a child while they are still a child themselves;
while women are raped and forced to bear the baby of their rapist;
while women die from lack of a simple procedure doctors are afraid to perform (for fear of being thrown in jail or prison,) thus being deprived of their lives and often leaving behind husbands, young children and their surviving relatives or
if cities and towns lose doctors who don't want to practice in places with such barbaric laws, leaving their residents with no local health care at all.
A better question is: how can the mostly men in the legislatures that vote for these medieval laws be so cruel and consider themselves fit for office, let alone fit to be part of decent society?
Great response (Mr. or Ms.?) C C. White, male, 85YO lifelong Democrat here. I care about every one of the items on your list and will continue to care and to do so every day until I draw my last breath. But the fact that a slim majority of the voters of our nation don’t support these basic female rights is tormenting my days and nights.
Great post as always Jess. Thanksgiving Day preparations interfered with my Substack reading time so I was just now quickly perusing my inbox and I read it as a meeting with a small town librarian so it took me a few minutes of waiting for the librarian’s introduction before I realized my mistake. I attempted to read some of Ayn Rand’s books as a teenager but didn’t finish any of them because my BS detector was clanging so loud. Unfortunately, one of my son’s professors at the Naval Postgraduate School turned him on to the libertarian philosophy, which has resulted in destroyed our once close relationship.
Public education is not intended to be regulated by the whims of politicians or parents or students. It’s not intended to please any of those constituencies. It was created to meet the needs of a democracy by creating a well educated population with the requisite information, critical thinking skills,and the desire to support that democracy. Recognizing that such an electorate is their worst enemy, the would be oligarchs are doing everything possible with their wealth and greed to destroy our system of public education and to create a nation of people who can be easily manipulated by them
Also the people have this amazing educational force in their homes which spews a constant stream of "education" in violence, anger, quick solutions and easy answers. This contributes as well and competes with good teachers.
I don't often argue this point because the concept of libertarianism, like so much else in the political lexicon, has been bastardized beyond all recognition. The Kochs and their followers like the freedom aspect of libertarianism, but decline to accept the balancing requirement of responsibility for one's actions. There are few, if any, real libertarians, and those who self-describe as such are usually just trying to add some modicum of acceptability to an otherwise inhumane and anti-freedom agenda.
Remember years ago listening to a libertarian talk about how burdensome it was to have to file a flight plan with the FAA before taking off in his plane. My first thought was I'd never fly with him, if something went wrong no one would know.
Mary, good decision. When I lived in the mountainous west, that actually happened a few times. Somebody out hiking or flying over would see pieces of a crashed plane years (even decades) after, and there would be no record of it having taken off or who might have been on board. Sometimes they could collect enough pieces to trace it, but some were in areas so remote it would be dangerous to try to get to them. And yeah, lots of libertarian survivalist types up there. Yeah, I noted the irony as I typed that.
Talking to these people requires task analysis (something I learned about in my special education master’s program). You have to discover the mistakes in their thinking and knowledge base and begin to construct a lesson plan to reeducate them. I spent 30 years doing this with students; not sure I want to work with “adults” in this way!
Lisa, But when you do find the right words, you can use them next time. Don’t beat yourself up. It’s a learning opportunity. Unfortunately, there will always be a next time, and you will be ready.
I have the same issue, but I am starting to believe that I just have to do it enough times, fail enough times, and gradually learn not to think faster, but just start facing some of the same situations repeatedly. Good future luck, we really do all need to be in this game.
Frustrating and highly stressful, which is why I have to admit I usually try to avoid such situations. I do better with writing, where I have time to think, and spend a lot of time on the computer.
I know exactly what you are talking about - and I was working with adults who were convinced that what they thought they knew was fact. It is a lot of work. I actually had to approach a recent encounter with my now former cell carrier this way, step by step until I got them in the cognitive corner I needed them to be in to do what they should have done in the first place. Sooooo glad that's over.
You asked perfect questions. What is your plan for the chronically poor? The elderly? The disabled? Children? The people who, through no fault of their own, cannot compete in the “market?”
Please, the next time you engage with a so-called “Libertarian,” ask him why there are no children in Ayn Rand’s execrable polemics masquerading as novels?
The end result of “rugged individualism” is inevitably a culture of one, dedicated to only one, and therefore a fatal, if not deadly, terminus when that one becomes either irrelevant or extinct. A movement is not transferable.
Civilization is not possible if the ambition of the one is defined as superior to the humane understanding of the collective.
She was just a badly-educated provocateur with an unfortunate talent for writing rape-fantasy dystopian novels
I try to be charitable and tell myself she was driven irrational from her experience with Soviet Russia, but there’s no excuse at all for the assholes who use her turgid, plot and personal motive driven characters to justify atrocities against civilization and the rule of agreed-upon law to disembowel civic responsibility
I don't believe for a second bolsheviks had anything to do with it, that's who she was, dying while on Social Security. POS. The thing about all these "freedom" lovers is that they only, solely, exclusively thrive as parasites on a body of a socially responsible society which protects their rebellious and nihilistic opinions. "Rugged Cowboys" my ass, they never actually existed, ever - I don't mean cow herders.
Yes, "rugged individalism/cowboys" is such a farce. Like it or not, their ability to have that facade depends on layers upon layers of social responsibility--by others.
There's a difference between ranchers (land-owners) and cowboys (hired hands). There's also a reason they were called cowboys, and it has to do with the fact that a majority of the cowhands were black, Mexican, or native. Working conditions sucked. The "rugged individualism" is a construct of the land-owning ranchers, who liked to pretend that they did it all on their own, never mind the fact that the govt gave them the land and all that entailed.
I read all kinds of shit and imagining the chaos, disruption and misery waiting to land on MAGA heads everywhere, I’m constantly in mind of Beatrix Potter’s “The Tale of Two Bad Mice,” and her observation of how the selfishly ignorant, destructive acts of a couple grifters go horribly wrong for them:
“And then, there was no rage to satisfy the disappointment of Hunca-Munca and Tom Thumb.”
Execrable is a good word. Ayn Rand's personal life was a mess. She had an affair with a much younger married follower and insisted that her own husband acquiesce with full knowledge of the affair. It was all supposed to be so high-minded. She was highly judgmental and was clearly, at least to me, a cult leader. If you weren't "pure" in her doctrine, you were called to account and your "premises" examined. It was very damaging to many of her followers. I read many of her books and eventually threw them in the trash so no one else would have those copies to read.
I accidentally replied down the stack, but please, don't use the "rugged individualism" as a sort of alternative entity - it simply can not exist on its own, and all those preaching so are parasites, to be exposed and... dewormed off.
I live in Brooklyn ny. It's easy to be progressive there. I bumped into your substack. It takes grit to be progressive in rural Missouri. I completely admire your efforts.
Thank you!
I second his comment.
Libertarians don’t want to have any rules, except to protect their wealth. Scammers all.
If libertarians were about freedom, they would actually be for open borders, but of course they aren't. Protecting their own wealth and property is why.
Yes, I live in San Francisco where the Lump got less than 15% vote, and in Rome where no one cares about government. They never did and they never will. It is easy for us to be progressive but as you said, my hats off to Jess
Ditto!!
My father, born in 1918, grew up progressive in Brooklyn.
It takes down right badass courage to speak up in rural Missouri, or rural any crossroads USA!
Yup! It was tough in Alanta, which is New York compared to where Jess is!!
I have got no idea how I came across Jess’ posts (shurely shome algorithm thingy). I have got no connection to Missouri, I have never been there and are unlikely to visit. Jess’ writing is what’s making me come back and like you I admire her.
I live in California, where it should be easy to be a progressive, but it’s not. I am in a rural California town, which is very Maga. Big trucks, big flags, big exhausts. Yesterday I signed up for a meeting of like minded Dems for the first time but I am not a meeting type of person and was thinking of canceling. (And it’s 25 miles away) Your post today has motivated me to follow through. Take care❣️
Solidarity.
I hope the meeting was good. I live across Puget Sound from Seattle, and getting involved in the local Democratic Party has proven both interesting and enlightening. Good luck!!
I will let you know. I’m going tonight; chili potluck😉
Hi Ellen, The meeting was good:) I met 4 new friends willing to fight the good fight-oh, and had some delicious chili😉I am ready to do more face to face interactions after stepping out of my comfort zone.
I live West of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge after moving from Seattle’s Eastside. it seems 50/50 around here, the more rural the more red. One of the local legislative districts just flipped blue and there’s an active Indivisible chapter. I’m getting an idea of what it’s like for progressives living in ultra red areas
Yeah, it's kind of unpredictable, but the trend (at least up here in Kitsap) has been towards blue. Not sure if you share my enthusiasm for Emily Randall (guessing you are also in WA06) but damn--I can't WAIT to see what she does in Congress!
Yes, I live in the WA 6th CD and look forward to seeing Emily in action. I also have a feeling that WA LD 26 is trending blue with Addison Richards flipping position 1.
Great Misconception about California. Besides SF and Berkeley , it is redneck farm, cattle country
You left out L.A. and San Diego.
Thanks for speaking up, GrannyK. There are 10 million people living in Los Angeles County. So far leaning Democratic for at least 35 years.
Good point. I did,,,Lucky people like you exist
Do it!
Hi Christine, I live in Oakland, CA, and I wrote lots of postcards for candidates in rural California. You have your work cut out for you, but it's worth doing. I'm relieved that George Whitesides won.
Thank you, Susan!
Good luck! Jess is an inspiration. Be sure to share what you discover.
I hope you got as much out of going as I think you might have!
Christine--I'm in the same boat. My experience with my local dem group was disheartening. A bunch of old, white people who think bingo night is a great fundraiser. So I started flying flags of my own and putting up signs. NGL, I've been harassed a lot. But I have to live with my own conscience, and I'll keep fighting until they drag me off to wherever.
It is Good to connect with like minded others.
Courage, attracts courage
Goodwill
Hope
This is what Jess invites with her work.
Let us know how you do Christine?
💙 Solidarity
Yes she does! Glad I went and plan on doing more:)
Oh indeed. My son has ADHD and anxiety and struggled in school. People kept telling me, “send him to private school!” When we looked into it, we discovered that the private schools are not required to accommodate special needs kids in any way and his first classroom meltdown would have resulted in harsh punishments or expulsion. We turned to an advocate who helped us with an education plan that — guess what — our public school is required to follow. He is mostly thriving now. I don’t know what we will do if the department of education is dissolved.
Also in CA. My Grandson has an IEP, so I am sweating this one as well. We need to inundate Congress with our voices.
Phone and email your Senators and Reps every day; even the “treasonous” ones, they need to realize that we are also keeping score!
Thank you, Margaret. Contacting our Senators and Representatives every day, or at least as often as people can, is very important. I know mine all feel the same way I do about this MAGA attempted destruction of American government. But I've heard over and over that even so, hearing from their constituents really makes a positive difference in their behavior.
I'm sure it's even more critical to let elected Republican politicians know how much you are against the MAGA agenda because many of them are going along with it just to keep their jobs or protect their families from Dump's retribution...the heck with their oaths of office or protecting their constituents. They need to hear often from every one of their voters who rejects the MAGA agenda.
When they feel like their job is in jeopardy from a large, percentage of their voters who call their office in opposition to the Republican anti-democracy, anti-average citizen, pro-authoritarian agenda, they are likely going to be careful how they vote on various MAGA/Project 2025 agenda items that the public can track.
Also, good luck with your grandson's IEP. I know those programs do good things for children who just need a little different accomodation to thrive in school. We need a country of educated citizens, not a vast throng of ignorant voters whose schools were deliberately defunded and ignored by arrogant, self-important politicians who want this country "ruled" by a small group of rich, white, "Christian" men.
What's IEP? (Don't assume everyojne kows your acronyms unless they're in common parlance, like MPH, DNA, and HIV. And if I were using acronyms, I might mention ICE, which in one of my worlds stands for "internal combustion engine."
IEP stands for Individualized Education Plan. In teacher-ese it’s as well-known as the acronyms u mentioned:) I totally get where you are coming from; I just had to look up fafo🙃
Somehow I doubt that it's even 100th as well known as HIV, DNA, and MPH, except among teachers. I don't hang around under rocks--I get out into the world, and I've never heard it before. FAFO is also obscure. I've seen it once before, and had to look it up.
Obscure acronyms do to the flow of prose what a dead cow does to the flow of a stream.
Most parents and educators that I know are familiar with this term. Representatives know what it means.
Less than half of US adults are parents. (Google it) And the vast majority of US adults are not representatives.
IEP = Individual Education Plan. We have them in Canadian schools too.
Individual Education Plan. It’s a legal document spelling out what accommodations a school (district) will make for a student who has been diagnosed with a disability. Examples: it might include additional resources, modified lessons, support from a special education teacher or paraprofessional, transportation, or behavior plan. There are other possible accommodations.
I have faith that red Moms in red states also want to keep federal $$ flowing for their child's accommodations through the Dept of Ed!! Kids with IEPs don't follow state lines. They'll be real vocal about *major cuts* to such a imperative initiative the more the better. <3
I suspect there are a lot of Quaker private schools, and based on the one I went to during the early-mid '60s, I suspect they'd accommodate special needs kids. In fact, I can't imagine they wouldn't. But I don't 100% guarantee that.
Of course, knowing the little I know about my old school's current policies, I suspect a lot of contemporary Quaker schools might be overly woke, in ways that would stifle some of the education we got. (We studied the Vikings, the ancient Greeks, including their gods and the Trojan War, and I'm one of those kids who would leave whenever my friends (at home, not school) wanted to play "war" because I just wasn't interested, but I must have read at least five different versions of the Iliad, and at least several different versions of the Trojan war.
Write your representatives about your concerns! I'm so worried for our special needs kids.
I completely agree with your comment about selfish, privileged libertarians. I would also add arrogant. I've known a few myself and they think that because they can survive without "government assistance" or "welfare" that everyone can. They have no answer for what happens when there is a problem. Keep up the fight!
In one of Kehoe’s TV ads, he bragged that his family qualified for assistance, but didn’t accept it. It’s not just Libertarians. It’s lack of empathy. And it’s a sickness of the soul.
Soul sickness resulting from years of abundance and expanding economy? Materialism over character. appearance over internal process.
And yet, many of us have lived through the same with our empathy intact.
And yet none of them actually survive without government, driving on roads, drinking tap water etc.
I forgot where I read and who said it but to paraphrase it, Libertarians are like house cats. They like to pretend that they are fiercely independent yet they are 100% dependent on the system they think they are independent of.
Well said!
To be fair, a lot of rural folks have wells which they have paid to have dug themselves. But still like everyone, they expect government to be there when they want it to be. Without seemingly understanding that it isn't just for them and sometimes will do things they don't want because it helps someone else.
Wells insignificant compared to numbers hooked to public water systems and accounting for wells drying up due to climate change.
I think they are bad citizens too. They act like they have no obligation to the people around them. Everyone is part of a family, a community, a town, a state, a country and we have an obligation TO them and we have expectations OF them. That’s the way the world works, the way human society has always worked.
Just think Rand Paul. Arrogant know it all blowhard to the core.
Rand Paul came immediately to my mind when I started this post! Self-centered, smug, generally uncaring about actual, real people 😳
I heard someone, somewhere once say (I’m paraphrasing): “libertarians are enamored of the idea of the survival of the fittest, and they believe they are the fittest.” So many of them live in this Social Darwinian fantasy camp; It’s a thought experiment and nothing more.
I started laughing when I read your post. A couple decades ago, a bunch of libertarians moved to a small town in NH (no income taxes in NH) and proceeded to try to take it over. The whole thing fell apart because, being libertarians, nobody could "make" them do anything, so nothing got done. The libertarians argued with each other and then drifted away. I heard housing was cheap for a while, but now the town is back doing things the New England way, from what I hear. This is a true story, well-documented in the news at the time.
And there were bears ... https://wdet.org/2022/01/13/libertarian-walks-into-a-bear-interview/
Exactly. Fantasy is the word for it.
They think they don't get "govt assistance", but they do. They just take it for granted. They forget that they owe a huge back debt for everything they own, because the real costs were passed on as "external costs", born by other people in the form of displacement or unpaid labor, or simply passed on to the future to pay. We are holding quite a lot of that right now.
For one thing, our entire legal system is largely designed to protect property rights.
Well put but I would suggest that instead of “because they can survive…”. should be amended to read “because they think they can survive”. Even Charles K gets a great deal of benefit from the government.
Largely white guys, and there is a slew of these types in IT Industry, the concentration of them in spoiled silly Silicon Valley is very high. Thiel is the tip of the iceberg.
I tend to think of libertarians as robber barons: "I'll do what I have the resources to do, and no one can make me do otherwise!"
It’s true that the billionaires tend to be libertarians but most libertarians aren’t even close to rich. So many don’t have the proverbial pot to p—s in or the window to throw it out of!
Rather like toddlers testing limits.
I hope that you asked him how a libertarian could support taking medical choices out of the hands of women and their doctors. I hope you asked him why a libertarian would support enforcing a particular lifestyle on LGBQT people. I hope you asked him why a libertarian would support a specific religious study to be forced an all kids regardless of their own family's beliefs. By the way, thank you for going to the meeting and having whatever conversation that was possible. Few would do what you do. Most of us are too afraid or too tired or too pissed off.
He actually said Americans for prosperity does not have a stance on abortion. But the folks they support definitely do.
That’s even more infuriating. Their stance on abortion, if they *actually* cared about freedom for anyone other than themselves (and since they are overwhelmingly male they probably just don’t care because it’s not their problem), if they were actually being consistent, should be that the government should be hands off people’s bodies. But it’s not people, of course, it’s only women. And thus they haven’t even given it a thought because why would they?
Yes, Jessica. Why would they care about their mothers, wives, sisters, daughters, nieces, female friends and neighbors?
Why should they be expected to care:
if women in their towns and cities are bleeding out in cars in hospital parking lots after being rejected in emergency rooms, waiting to be "sick" enough to be treated by their doctors;
if women lose their ability to have children they desperately want due to inadequate care after a miscarriage;
if women suffer greatly while carrying a dying baby for months that doctors know will expire shortly after birth while those babies gasp for air and then die in their parents' arms;
if girls who were raped by their fathers or relatives become pregnant and are forced to give birth to a child while they are still a child themselves;
while women are raped and forced to bear the baby of their rapist;
while women die from lack of a simple procedure doctors are afraid to perform (for fear of being thrown in jail or prison,) thus being deprived of their lives and often leaving behind husbands, young children and their surviving relatives or
if cities and towns lose doctors who don't want to practice in places with such barbaric laws, leaving their residents with no local health care at all.
A better question is: how can the mostly men in the legislatures that vote for these medieval laws be so cruel and consider themselves fit for office, let alone fit to be part of decent society?
Great response (Mr. or Ms.?) C C. White, male, 85YO lifelong Democrat here. I care about every one of the items on your list and will continue to care and to do so every day until I draw my last breath. But the fact that a slim majority of the voters of our nation don’t support these basic female rights is tormenting my days and nights.
Great post as always Jess. Thanksgiving Day preparations interfered with my Substack reading time so I was just now quickly perusing my inbox and I read it as a meeting with a small town librarian so it took me a few minutes of waiting for the librarian’s introduction before I realized my mistake. I attempted to read some of Ayn Rand’s books as a teenager but didn’t finish any of them because my BS detector was clanging so loud. Unfortunately, one of my son’s professors at the Naval Postgraduate School turned him on to the libertarian philosophy, which has resulted in destroyed our once close relationship.
In other words, he doesn't care about the unintended consequences of his purity. Good old Pharisees.
Excellent questions! I hadn’t thought about it that way but now I will be prepared! 💜
Thank you for your service, Jess. Civil discourse indeed. We need you and love your spirit.
Public education is not intended to be regulated by the whims of politicians or parents or students. It’s not intended to please any of those constituencies. It was created to meet the needs of a democracy by creating a well educated population with the requisite information, critical thinking skills,and the desire to support that democracy. Recognizing that such an electorate is their worst enemy, the would be oligarchs are doing everything possible with their wealth and greed to destroy our system of public education and to create a nation of people who can be easily manipulated by them
THAT
Education is the basis of democracy!
Which is why they want it to degrade.
Also the people have this amazing educational force in their homes which spews a constant stream of "education" in violence, anger, quick solutions and easy answers. This contributes as well and competes with good teachers.
Colin, yes!!
I don't often argue this point because the concept of libertarianism, like so much else in the political lexicon, has been bastardized beyond all recognition. The Kochs and their followers like the freedom aspect of libertarianism, but decline to accept the balancing requirement of responsibility for one's actions. There are few, if any, real libertarians, and those who self-describe as such are usually just trying to add some modicum of acceptability to an otherwise inhumane and anti-freedom agenda.
Yes, thank you. Exactly.
Remember years ago listening to a libertarian talk about how burdensome it was to have to file a flight plan with the FAA before taking off in his plane. My first thought was I'd never fly with him, if something went wrong no one would know.
Mary, good decision. When I lived in the mountainous west, that actually happened a few times. Somebody out hiking or flying over would see pieces of a crashed plane years (even decades) after, and there would be no record of it having taken off or who might have been on board. Sometimes they could collect enough pieces to trace it, but some were in areas so remote it would be dangerous to try to get to them. And yeah, lots of libertarian survivalist types up there. Yeah, I noted the irony as I typed that.
Talking to these people requires task analysis (something I learned about in my special education master’s program). You have to discover the mistakes in their thinking and knowledge base and begin to construct a lesson plan to reeducate them. I spent 30 years doing this with students; not sure I want to work with “adults” in this way!
I’m not a quick thinker in social situations. I find the right words later on and regret the missed opportunity. It’s so frustrating.
Lisa, But when you do find the right words, you can use them next time. Don’t beat yourself up. It’s a learning opportunity. Unfortunately, there will always be a next time, and you will be ready.
I have the same issue, but I am starting to believe that I just have to do it enough times, fail enough times, and gradually learn not to think faster, but just start facing some of the same situations repeatedly. Good future luck, we really do all need to be in this game.
Same here. Very frustrating.
Frustrating and highly stressful, which is why I have to admit I usually try to avoid such situations. I do better with writing, where I have time to think, and spend a lot of time on the computer.
Oh me too, I know what I believe but I can’t articulate it when I should.
Laura, Thank you for your service.
I know exactly what you are talking about - and I was working with adults who were convinced that what they thought they knew was fact. It is a lot of work. I actually had to approach a recent encounter with my now former cell carrier this way, step by step until I got them in the cognitive corner I needed them to be in to do what they should have done in the first place. Sooooo glad that's over.
Good for you!
I need this.
Koch also sells much of the fertilizer in Iowa and I presume Missouri by purchasing a plant Iowa taxpayers helped build
Ahhhh… I did not know this, friend
https://kochfertilizer.com/newsroom/Koch-Ag-Energy-Solutions-Completes-Acquisition-of-Wever-Iowa-Fertilizer-Plant_2692.aspx
Yep poisoning the people! The Monsanto way!
I don't know why Koch needs to build a fertilizer plant. He produces and distributes more than enough "fertilizer" all by himself.
Blue dot Okie here. Thank you Jess! You are a beast!🔥🔥🔥🔥
Just having a civil conversation is a good start. Many, many people are not open to that. I would welcome one.
You asked perfect questions. What is your plan for the chronically poor? The elderly? The disabled? Children? The people who, through no fault of their own, cannot compete in the “market?”
Apparently, libertarians don't actually believe they can grow old or become disabled.
Go, Jess, go!! You are an inspiration and a teacher in survival. Please don't stop talking and driving and drinking that good, hot, plain coffee.
Often, being called “stubborn” is meant as a negative. But, in your case, Jess, I cannot think of a better compliment. I admire your stubbornness.
I prefer tenacious.
Well done. In spades
Please, the next time you engage with a so-called “Libertarian,” ask him why there are no children in Ayn Rand’s execrable polemics masquerading as novels?
The end result of “rugged individualism” is inevitably a culture of one, dedicated to only one, and therefore a fatal, if not deadly, terminus when that one becomes either irrelevant or extinct. A movement is not transferable.
Civilization is not possible if the ambition of the one is defined as superior to the humane understanding of the collective.
Always.
Full stop.
Ayn Rand makes me angry. Her novels 🤮
Yup.
She was just a badly-educated provocateur with an unfortunate talent for writing rape-fantasy dystopian novels
I try to be charitable and tell myself she was driven irrational from her experience with Soviet Russia, but there’s no excuse at all for the assholes who use her turgid, plot and personal motive driven characters to justify atrocities against civilization and the rule of agreed-upon law to disembowel civic responsibility
In an ironic plot twist, they’re about to find out what happens when they fire the competent civil servants and put their toadies in their positions.
I don't believe for a second bolsheviks had anything to do with it, that's who she was, dying while on Social Security. POS. The thing about all these "freedom" lovers is that they only, solely, exclusively thrive as parasites on a body of a socially responsible society which protects their rebellious and nihilistic opinions. "Rugged Cowboys" my ass, they never actually existed, ever - I don't mean cow herders.
You said it.
Scratch a Libertarian, you find a spoiled brat demanding all the fucking cookies because freedom
Yes, "rugged individalism/cowboys" is such a farce. Like it or not, their ability to have that facade depends on layers upon layers of social responsibility--by others.
There's a difference between ranchers (land-owners) and cowboys (hired hands). There's also a reason they were called cowboys, and it has to do with the fact that a majority of the cowhands were black, Mexican, or native. Working conditions sucked. The "rugged individualism" is a construct of the land-owning ranchers, who liked to pretend that they did it all on their own, never mind the fact that the govt gave them the land and all that entailed.
I read all kinds of shit and imagining the chaos, disruption and misery waiting to land on MAGA heads everywhere, I’m constantly in mind of Beatrix Potter’s “The Tale of Two Bad Mice,” and her observation of how the selfishly ignorant, destructive acts of a couple grifters go horribly wrong for them:
“And then, there was no rage to satisfy the disappointment of Hunca-Munca and Tom Thumb.”
Except MAGA will blame and punishment someone else.
That’s the way they roll, all right.
iow, Ayn Rand is an excuse to do heinous shit to other people and fuck the future and fuck the immense collateral damage her not-philosophy advocates
Execrable is a good word. Ayn Rand's personal life was a mess. She had an affair with a much younger married follower and insisted that her own husband acquiesce with full knowledge of the affair. It was all supposed to be so high-minded. She was highly judgmental and was clearly, at least to me, a cult leader. If you weren't "pure" in her doctrine, you were called to account and your "premises" examined. It was very damaging to many of her followers. I read many of her books and eventually threw them in the trash so no one else would have those copies to read.
This signifying you’re a responsible adult member of a civilized society
I accidentally replied down the stack, but please, don't use the "rugged individualism" as a sort of alternative entity - it simply can not exist on its own, and all those preaching so are parasites, to be exposed and... dewormed off.
I have ivermectin! (For my horse). Yes, agree about rugged individualism.